Welcome to season two of the Debt Free Mom podcast. Kicking off our next season, we have Mya on the podcast today. She is younger than our average listener base and she's here to share about being a Gen Z budgeter and trying to find financial advice that works for a younger generation. She's going to share her story about graduating from college, looking for jobs, and establishing herself independently with her finances and career. I am thrilled to have her on today.
Hi Mya, how you doing today?
I'm good. How are you? I'm doing good. I'm very glad that I made it to sitting down at this moment 'cause it's been a little bit of a crazy day.
Oh good. I'm glad. Hopefully this can be a little calm part of your day then. Okay. So I, I'm reading your bio. You are a digital marketing manager. What specifically do you do? Are you self-employed? Do you do freelance? Are you hired by someone? What's your current employment right now?
So, currently I am hired, so I am getting like a W2. I have been able to do a little bit of like, freelance work through my employer. So I've had to do a 1099 probably like the last two years in a row, which I'm happy that I probably won't have to do it for next year. 'cause right now I'm not doing any extra work with the company that I work with 'cause it definitely gets a little bit complicated. With digital marketing management, I am working at like a larger pr marketing and advertising firm. So I would say it's kind of like a jack of all trades hat and if somebody had to pick a certain thing to attach to it, it would be project management. It's always a lot of like, like literally hundreds of puzzle pieces that go with that. And then having to be responsible for kind of connecting all of them and operating through timelines. And then also just being a producer. So, my manager title is very much so, faux pa. Okay. I'm definitely still working and working with people and developing the content and still like actually having to actively produce.
I don't get to just delegate and say like, yeah, you do this, you do that, and I'll just hold the pieces. It's definitely like in the trenches with the whole team. So yeah, that's kind of, I think the broadest description I can give without somebody saying, so what do you do again? Sure. It's like, I really don't know actually.
Awesome. So let's set the stage then for what we're gonna talk about, which is moving into kind of talking about being a Gen Z who's managing finances well and wants to do well, but sometimes sees advice that isn't necessarily targeted for someone at your stage of life. So can you kind of set the stage for me? You can, you don't have to give your age if you want to, but you are Gen Z. So where are you at? Like your living arrangement, college, recently graduated? Paint us a picture of Mya's life.
Okay, let me get my crayon box together. So I am 24, which to put that in perspective of how they're defining Gen Z, that generation started in 1998. So I was born in 1998 and that's how like it kicked off. So it is a bit interesting 'cause I don't super connect with what I feel like is like the social understanding of Gen Z because like, I was born before people really had cell phones. Like everybody had a cell phone. Like I didn't get my first cell phone until I was nine, and it was a flip phone.
I played like the old school Nintendo, the one that you plugged into the tv. Like I had one of those and then I also had a Game Cube, which nobody knows about that like exists anymore. Yeah. I love how when we talk about the generations, the way we signal it in is like video games. Like yeah, you play video games.
What did, what did you play after school? Yeah.
So, transitioning through all of that. I think for me, with my finances, so I did graduate from college. I graduated in 2020. I did get debt in college, but it was very minimal. I was very blessed to have like a lot of scholarships. And then I made some decisions as far as like being employed at a job that was through campus to cover the fair minimal balance that I did have freshman year.
So for the rest of like my time in school, I was going to school for free. I was actually getting like a refund check to every semester to cover certain things. So that was pretty cool. And then I graduated in the 2020, so my senior year, I graduated May of 2020. I was staying in an apartment. We did an extended lease, which I didn't want to do when we first agreed to do it. Okay. With the pandemic, I was like, oh my gosh, we're paying an extended lease in the middle of a pandemic for three extra months. There's no like, oh yeah, we'll be traveling and we'll have time to move out of the, it was like, no, we're in lockdown.
You're here and like you're here and if you're not here, 'cause a lot of like, college students went home. It's like, yeah, I would be home, but I'd still be paying for here. I still have to pay for this every month up until the end of July. So after that came up, I did move back home. I was interning at the company that I currently work for, so I was making like maybe $12 an hour, like, you know, college money. And then I transitioned into being like a full-time marketing staff person and I've just continued to transition and getting paid more for taking on more responsibility and just getting more What's it called?
Experience. Okay. Through the job to where I could actually like hold the digital marketing management role. And then like I said, I did start freelancing and doing like some social media account management as a separate contract with my company for some of our clients. So that's kind of been the development of my finances. But I would say senior year was when I said I didn't wanna be an RA anymore 'cause it was overwhelming. And it was like I had made some serious financial decisions, but I wasn't a financially minded person yet. Mm-hmm. So I decided to like nix the RA thing and because of that I made another decision to nix housing on campus because I was like, this is really expensive and it's like really terrible housing. Mm-hmm. And I can't go back to like sharing a dorm with somebody after being by myself for three, three years. Mm-hmm. And paying 11 grand for half of a closet. Yeah. And some just sketchy situations like sharing bathrooms with people and all that good stuff. So I got a house on campus 'cause I didn't have a car yet, so there was nothing too like, okay, I have to be on campus. There was actually a residential neighborhood in the middle of my campus. So we found a house, had enough roommates to make it work. And on paper I saw that it was cheaper than my dorm. I saw that it was gonna result in me getting an even bigger refund check from school because my refund check money wasn't going to paying off like the other half of my balance that I was responsible for for housing. Mm-hmm. And I was coming out of a corporate internship that had paid me pretty well, but I had no financial skills. So when I say that, it's like I wasn't a budgeter. You know, they kind of give you like those personalities. I am a spender. Yeah.
Yep.
Same. And. It was like, I knew all of those numbers had to work, but I was really flying by the seat of my pants through the whole experience. And it got really hard because the one thing about being on campus and having the dorm situation is that it's kind of like accredited debt. Mm-hmm. Nobody's asking for the dorm every month versus Oh yeah. I'm like 100% paying for this house that we're renting every month. I'm paying a utility bill. I'm paying to feed myself. So it got really lean, like mm-hmm. It just got really, really lean and it kind of actually brought me to kind of like my breaking point where I really sought God and asked him to help me with my finances. 'cause I just got to a space that I never wanted to be in.
What, what got you to that point? Was it like your, your bank account balance being really low? Was it seeing debt like credit cards that you couldn't pay the balance in full? What was the thing that kind of drove that enough is enough turn a corner kind of thing?
So both, it was like low bank account balance and having moments where things did go like negative and having to like influx cash and also really high credit card balances. Okay. Because, so the very first credit card I ever got it was because I had gotten fixated like maybe sophomore, junior year of college about having a credit score and like A credit score by the time I graduated because that was just a conversation that was being had around me a lot and I got one, I got approved for one. It was like, what? And it was almost, and I'll add to that, it was after I had tried the "proven safer methods" of getting a credit card or getting a credit score, like let your family members add you to their card but you don't need a physical card. And that actually opened up my first interactions with - not my first - 'cause you always have interactions with your family around money, but it was like, I was trying to have these conversations. And whether it was just like, financial trauma, whatever it is, there were a lot of blocks to it. And I internalized this hurt and this kind of really like chip on my shoulder of like, if you're not gonna help me, I'm gonna do it myself.
I felt like nobody was being very forthcoming with me about just simple things like either I think I love what you do so much because it takes a lot of the charged up emotions out of finances and it's just the truth. And I've always been really big on the truth. And when it came to finances, there was always kind of like this mugginess around it. Because I guess there's like the shame attached to it of like either not having enough or, most kids don't know if their parents have bad credit. So then we get to a space where it's like, I wanna have good credit. And you go to your parents because like those are your number one like aficionados on anything that's happening in your life.
And then all of a sudden it's like, do I have to present myself to my child as not having good credit? Yeah. So a lot of that was happening, so I kind of disassociated from all of it and was like, I'm apply for my own credit card, it's fine. Yeah. And I got a Discover card and I ran for an office that year and it was just like, there were a lot of like, I was just very wanted to be self-made, do it myself and could always look at whatever I was charging and say like, oh, I'll be able to pay that offer, or I'll be able to pay a minimum. I'm like, it's okay. Da da da da. Mm-hmm. So that was the first credit card experience and 'cause of that first credit card, my computer broke and I needed a new one, and there was like a little traumatic situation around that, and I was looking at getting a Mac because I would just really believed in the fact that I wanted to be like a content creator and I wanted to have hardware that represented that. So I got another credit card. I got approved for a Chase Freedom credit card, and I got approved for like over a $2,000 balance. And I used it to finance my MacBook. And my idea was that this corporate internship I had was going to definitely give me enough cash flow to pay that down and avoid the charges that would come after a 18 month APR, which I was like " 18 months? That's like forever away."
Mm-hmm. And I'll be good, and in theory it would've been good, but I didn't have the disciplines and the actions to say, no, like I'm gonna legitimately pay it for real. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm not gonna play around, like, I'm gonna really do it to back that up. So I ended the summer with credit card balances with and both of my credit cards were in APR stages, so I wasn't paying.
What's it called? The interest charge. Interest.
Yep. So, yeah. So the balance, you like a 0% like promo period or something? Yeah.
And I was living it. I was like, free money. Free money. And also the pride of thinking like, I'm so smart. I'm not gonna get caught up by the free money thing. I know I need to pay this money off so I don't get charged for it. Yeah. Which I might've been able to get away with if I hadn't have picked up this monthly responsibility of living off campus, on campus and having to pay rent on a monthly basis. And it's like, I had the high balances, I had the money coming in slash the money in my savings that was constantly going out.
So it got to the point where I had no margin. Like yeah, if my bank account was low, my credit card balance was also high. So, you have no money. Yeah. Like you don't even have your free money anymore. Right. And I'll never forget, like, I'll never forget this. It's probably seared in the back of my mind for eternity.
But I had ordered a Uber and you know how like, especially with like those services, it like locks in. Mm-hmm. And it will take the money out of your account even if like it doesn't get completed. So I think I ordered the Uber or I did something, but it was going to the wrong address, so I had to cancel it.
But it had already like zilch my margin. Mm. And I just remember being at work and this is when I was an intern and like, I just was so hot with like shame about like, oh my gosh, like I'm trying to show up in these spaces, because I'm also like in college and showing up to an internship. So you're constantly around people who are professional. You're constantly in this pressure cooker of like wanting to show up, feeling great and looking great and all these things. And it was like, I can't afford to go home. Hmm. And I have to either reach out for help or I like, you know? And it just like that, that just ate me. Like it ate me. Yeah.
That's humbling.
Yeah. It was just like, like, yeah. And it was hard. Like it was just a hard moment. And I think I ended up asking like one of my coworkers for a ride home, which of course they were happy to do. But that just stuck with me. Like those emotions, that ball of emotions, that anxiety, like all of that. I was just like, oh no, I can't do this.
Yeah. Sometimes it is those little moments that, you know, like you said, I think you had said in your form that you filled out that it was like a $10 Uber or something. And it's sometimes when we realize that like the smallest little transaction has totally messed up our finances, where we're like, there has to be a way to not feel completely derailed by something that's $10.
Especially when you feel like you're working, like I had two jobs at that point. Mm-hmm. Just like I'm working, you know, I pay my bills. I think it's very, yes, yes. I'm trying. I'm trying. And it was just, it wasn't working because it wasn't set up to work. Like, it was just a lot of things that I had committed and walked into because I had faith in myself, which I don't think was the problem. Like mm-hmm. I don't regret having faith in myself, but I do. And I don't regret any of it. 'cause I think 100% is why I am where I'm at now. Mm-hmm. But I'm just thankful that in that moment I didn't go for broke for literally, yeah. I was already broke. Yeah. But I didn't like, try to make it worse.
I looked up to the hills where my hope was gonna come from and I said, God, you gotta help me 'cause you said that you could do anything for me and this is not working out.
So what, from that breaking point where you were like, okay, something has to change. What did you then start to change?
What were some of the things that you started to shift, either in the way you actually used your money or the way you thought about it? Did you budget for the first time? What became different once you had that moment of changing?
Okay, so I didn't budget. I probably didn't budget for like over a year, even after this point, which is crazy. But I did just felt like I needed to start looking at my finances. So my next stage was I created this spreadsheet that I still have to this day that was very exploratory, and it had a bill schedule on it because it was also, I knew the timing of my money and it was really off. So for the first time ever, I like put bill schedule, these are all of my bills. Mm-hmm. I'm looking at them. I put my credit card debt in. What was desired, which is like what, a 30% APR. Like, like I started putting numbers that made me more aware. Mm-hmm. And I wasn't just like doing everything super willy-nilly. And that helped a lot. Like, it just helped, like, it just helped to finally have the truth. And from there on my, my limited income with all the other things going on like college and just wanting to go and get coffee and get fast food and eat out with people, I started balancing just a lot better because I knew this is where I'm getting paid. This is how much I'm getting paid. Mm-hmm. This is what I have to pay for. 'cause again, pay your bills. Yeah. Yeah. And this is when I'm having to pay for it. So, and I started curbing my behavior because I can't say that I still wasn't overspending, 'cause like to this day I still struggle with overspending, but I was overspending smarter. Mm-hmm. Because I'm like overspending right before I needed something or right before rent was due or whatever it is. And then I think I also started engineering a plan to pay off my credit card
debt more.
So from then to now, if you could look, if you could think back to that moment when you, when the Uber charged your card and then you were zilch to all the way fast forward to now, how have those, those little changes that you started at the beginning, what would you say is some of the biggest differences between the way that you handle your money or how secure you feel about your finances.
If you, if we fast forward between those two things and we think about Mya with the Uber and Mya today, what, what are some of the big differences?
Oh my gosh. It's crazy. I mean, it's like, it's literally a miracle. So if I had to fast forward and think about Mya today, it's like, you know, even when I overspend, I'm in way more control of it. And I have way more margin than I ever would've back then. And I'm stewarding, meaning like I'm just so much more responsible, like so much more responsible. Like the fact that I can look and I can almost just shout for joy with like the fact that I've been able to be generous with my money, like, instead giving, that was a big thing that happened back then too. Like I started tithing, and I think even that practice of like, okay, honoring God first and then dealing with my money issues and the percentages. Like the fact that I know the percentage point of how much food I spend is crazy. Yeah. Like, even if I'm not happy about it, I'm like, yeah, the number needs to go down. It's like the fact that I know the number. Yes. I've never known that. I just think that the peace I have with my finances, even when I'm not hitting all of my goals, or even when I'm confused about where to go. There's no condemnation. There's no shame. There's no like hot ears. It's very like, okay, but I'm going somewhere. Like, you know, just come like, cool. Comfortable and yeah, just in control, which is like a 180 from hot, angry. Yeah. And sad. Yeah. All at the same time.
Once, it's amazing how once we realize that, that once we take the power away from those numbers and we say, these are just numbers. They're not stating my value, my worth. They don't say anything about my job or my success. They're just a piece of information as boring as if I open an encyclopedia and read a random page, like it's just a piece of information. Once we can take that emotional power from the numbers, then we're actually able to make decisions that are best for our future, because we're not all tangled up in, well, what will other people think about this decision or what, what should I do here? And we can instead, like you said, be really levelheaded even in the face of overspending. Even in the face of something breaking that we weren't expecting it to break. If we can build a practice of saying, I'm just gonna look at the real numbers because they're just numbers. And then from there I can make a decision once I'm aware of the real numbers, that is like a personal finance superpower. To be able to just look at those and not immediately assign some negative emotion to them or some identity about yourself and say "the numbers are the numbers." They don't define who I am. It's just a fact. It's just the truth, like you said.
Yeah, absolutely. The numbers are just the numbers and even just how you feel about yourself, I think. I don't think the numbers tell you who you are because, you know, we get that from God, but it's like, I look at my numbers and they tell me that, I am a generous person that I really do like food. Yeah. I really knew I liked food, but like I'm kind of a foodie and it's like, yeah, I like food. It tells me that I'm taking care of myself whether it's a couple of doctors notes at that time. And I think I went from being a super prideful person, which is so crazy how prideful you can be when you're broke.
Like, it's just like, whoa. Like, because I think we have a culture in a society that tells you kind of the opposite. If you're prideful then you have to be humble because like, you're broke. But it's like, no, like there was a pride in just aimlessly spending money and just like charging everything and being like, "I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out." Yeah. And now there's just like this humility and there's this grace where it's like, thank you for an opportunity to be responsible. Thank you that I'm not where I used to be. Thank you that there's freedom in these numbers. Mm-hmm. And that I get to make better choices. Like you're just way more thankful than you were when you didn't have a plan and it was just like, everything's super outta control. 'Cause then you're just kind of like complaining a lot, or you're even kind of grubby like, yeah, this person owe me like $20. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Is like, you know what, if you owe me $20, you don't really owe me $20 because. It's in the budget as a other Yes, yes. "Miscellaneous" and we're just gonna move on from it.
It's so true that like when you feel, when you don't have a clear path forward, you can start to look to some really unhealthy or unhelpful things to try and fix the problem. Even sometimes if we have overspending and we don't even realize that we're overspending, then we get into this cycle of the only way to fix it is to drastically increase our income. And so we're working like triple overtime shifts or something. Where really, if we had a consistent budget and put a few parameters around our spending, we wouldn't have to do every waking moment be overtime shifts or something. So sometimes if we take a step back and say, okay, first let's make a plan, let's identify what those real numbers are, then we can make decisions that actually help dig us out of the hole and get us to where we wanna be. Instead of circling the wagons, like you said, of if you, if a friend borrows 20 bucks and you don't have a good budget system in place, you feel like you have to chase that down, otherwise your whole financial picture falls apart. Where we can then be like, you know what, maybe they need the 20 bucks and so we're gonna move on.
Right. So I love that having the way that you have transformed, having that awareness and having that plan helps you to come up with decisions and fixed problems that is actually a healthy, helpful solution to your problems instead of just out of desperation trying, throwing up any attempt to fix the problem.
And I think you touched on such like a key word with like _desperation _because there have been a lot of situations that have come up post those like really lean days where there is like just not this anxious, I need to make a decision right now. I need to do this right now. Like, it's like, okay, life has definitely slowed down since mm-hmm. Like those days in a good way where not everything is moving at this super fast paced and you're constantly making like on the fly decisions about buy this, don't buy that, avoid this, avoid that. Late fees. This just like constantly like boom, boom, boom. Like just trying to shoot one out versus like, now it's like, hmm, do I have to buy that right now? Is this really happening? Mm-hmm. Is that important? What's going, like, it just feels like everything is so much more coming out of a space of abundance versus super like desperados. This wasn't happening for lack of a better word, like in the gutter. Like I was at a private university. Mm-hmm. Yeah. School getting a honors degree and being somebody's daughter and somebody's child and feeling like that. So yeah. Just 100% not minimizing how like, toxic that desperado environment can be.
Mm-hmm. How it really detracts from like, the natural blessings that are around you. 'cause you are in a space to be great. And it's like, wow, your finances can really just block off the natural benefits of the life you're supposed to be living.
Yeah. And I think especially in the big life transition that you were in of graduating college and kind of entering the workforce, if I remember back to myself in college, we have these pictures in our head of, well, you've said a few of them.
Obviously, once I am working full-time, I'll be able to afford X, Y, and Z, that it'll just naturally happen. That I look around to all the other people that are working full-time and they're driving this car and they're living in this neighborhood. So obviously it'll just happen for me too. And then we actually get there and then we start to be like, how are all of these people doing this? Like, where is all of this money coming from? Because there's a big there's a big let down sometimes when we get to that, especially that leaving college and entering the workforce, where we just assume that as soon as we're making a full-time income, we will have as much disposable money as we could ever dream of, and the bills take it up so much faster than we expected, and then we're left there being like, "I make more money than I ever have in my life, and I'm more financially stressed than I ever have been in my life." And that's a really tough transition to navigate.
You said it perfectly. Can't add anything to it can't take anything away. It's very like, wow, this is not matching up to my expectations. And because our expectations aren't based on like reality. Mm-hmm. And something that I'm really passionate about is just having more honest conversations and just getting, like being prepared, I think something that was a big issue for me, and I look at it now and I'm like, it might still be an issue. It's not as big. Yeah, we'll see. But was just like feeling like, why doesn't anybody just say it? Mm-hmm. Like, why don't people say this is the reality? Why don't people, I think especially, I've always had this picture and I always use it a lot to illustrate to people when I talk about my story or just when I advocate for youth in general and the transitions that they're making in their lives from high school to being out of college.
And it's like, you go from a space where you know somebody will spend $500 for you to have a prom dress. They'll buy you a $600 class ring. They will tell you like, you can have this, you can have that. You just get raised in a expectation and a culture and then because of cultural understanding with age gaps and transitions in life. It's like, and as soon as you get to college, or as soon as you turn 18 or as soon as whatever it is, as soon as it happens, it's like you kind of get the carpet yank from underneath you, and it's like a bunch of like tough love moments that are supercharged with just even like the failings of the people who want to do something for you and can't do it for you. And instead of there being like that honesty in that, or even like the pre-planning of months, years in advance saying like, these are the expectations, these are the real things. It's like you figure it out, right? And it's really harsh and it creates like a lot of like, resentment across the board. And it also empowers the, the ignorance. It's like, yeah. You know, because at the end of the day you're still ignorant because, and ignorant just meaning like, you don't know, right? 'cause somebody kind of chucked it to you and said, figure it out. Well, it's like, well, I'm gonna figure it out and I'm not gonna accept anybody's help or anybody's criticism or whatever, and you know, the chips are just gonna fall for me how they fall.
Yeah. I think that led to a lot of the decisions I made, and I see it just as like this kind of cycle that we have in kind of like middle America, just expectation kids go to college, but not ever reverse engineering that and saying like, how did they get there and how do we pay for it? Because not everybody's gonna get a full scholarship. Yeah. And I have a full scholarship, still have all of those issues.
So it doesn't make you exempt from those kind of harsh realities. You mentioned at the beginning when we first started talking that as someone who is Gen Z, sometimes you see personal finance advice that you feel like doesn't really apply to you, that isn't applicable or just doesn't resonate with you.
Maybe share a couple of those things that don't resonate with you, and then also share what you think Gen Z needs to hear about personal finance, about managing personal finance. What would be a message that would be well tailored to that generation?
I think one of the biggest issues I have is that everything is very niche and shallow all at the same time. So niche meaning it might be tailored to specifically first time homeowner or family or, I think what's becoming even more increasing, how to be an entrepreneur, how to be an influencer, how to do this, how to do that.
When I saw your content, I saw more of what was going on in my everyday life. Even though you are like a mom in the middle, the Midwest of four. For lack of, I mean, you're white, I'm black, like I'm live in the South. You know, like it's just like all these things that it's like, we're not supposed to connect, but I'm like, no, we do! This is Debt Free Mom is my jam. Like, this is probably the best financial literature that I've like ever ingested. Like I love it. Oh, that is so sweet. And it's like people my age. Yeah. And then people my age who are putting out content are people older than me or people who are trying to target, like, I guess a younger demographic.
They put out content and I'm like, okay. Like it's just very, okay. It doesn't resonate. It doesn't sink in. It doesn't go deep. And I think it's because it lacks talking about the emotional side of money. Everything is super sterile. Everything is super: if you do this, you do that. If you do this, you get that, yeah.
Do this, to do that. And it's like, okay. But that's not why people are struggling with money. People are struggling with money because they don't feel empowered or supported, or they feel like they're still struggling against expectations of what their family should have been for them. And it's like for me, flipping it back to advice that I would give. It's work through your emotional stuff. Whatever bandaid you have that you're nursing about what somebody should have done for you, rip it off. Rip it off. Because especially when it comes to finances, it's like nobody really owes you anything. And the sooner you tap into the blessing to be like able bodied and able to work and able to explore things and to have like little quirky jobs, or even work for your big girl job, whichever one it is for you. And thinking about what's important to you and what do you wanna spend your money on and do you wanna move into a house? Like, you know, like all the things that are important to you, you'll get to them a lot faster when you take your money journey out of somebody else's hands and the expectation of what they should or shouldn't have done for you and what they should still be doing for you. 'cause I think there's also like this level of entitlement. And I think it comes from like another relational disconnect where you have a lot of parent to child relationships where there's like, I'm not your friend, I'm your parent, and you don't really know how to approach them about anything unless it's a need.
You're not approaching them for relationship, you're not approaching them for community because you feel like there's just like a barrier there that's been put there on purpose. So you only approach them when you need $20 for a field trip or whatever, you know what I'm saying? So even then it's are you in a cycle of not doing for yourself because you're constantly trying to tap into that relational side of like getting $20? Yeah. As you get older, you don't need $20, you need like $200. So like what whatcha gonna do? 'cause your parents can't keep giving you $200. Like that's just not realistic.
And so connected to that and related to the Gen Z money conversation and you also brought up the not often talked about scenario of you are a household inside of a household. So can you give me a definition of that for anybody who might be like, oh, maybe that applies to me, and then tell me what is challenging about that.
I think household within a household really came out of like tax kind of language for me. Because at the end of the day, if you live with somebody else, but you cannot be like claimed as one of their dependents, like you still have to file independently. And the IRS people ask you like, what, what kind of household are you in? Then you, for all intents and purposes, even though you have the same address, are a household within a household. You have your own salary coming in, you have your own money coming in. You have your own like little level of expenses. And I think that is often very overshadowed and override by like this cultural myth. I'll say it's a myth that if you stay at home, you don't have bills. And it's like you stay at home, you don't have expenses, you stay at home, you don't have bills. And it's like, to an extent, like, yeah, I don't have rent, but some people do stay at home and kind of have like a rent responsibility in a essence. So yeah, I don't have a mortgage or I don't have rent, or I don't have a water bill or whatever it is that is being comped by the benefit of staying home. But I might have subscriptions, I might have to go get my car serviced, I might have to save up for a certain thing, you know, like I have the everyday expenses of maintaining me, and I should also be factoring in the expenses of making, having financial goals and having financial plans. Mm-hmm. Because I think the trap or the pitfall of being a household within a household is, you know, are we making a plan for you to be a household in a singular household? Like Yeah. Because you don't always wanna be a household within a household. So is there a plan for you to save up money and move out? Is there a plan for you to save up money for a business that you wanna start? Like what is the plan for this income that's coming in within this other household? And oftentimes because we don't think about a household within a household, there is no plan. Yeah. And where there's Proverbs "where there's no vision, the people perish" like your money starts perishing because your household within a household, and it's almost like your money doesn't feel important, so you just spend it any type of way because Right. You know, if I don't have a mortgage, then I'll just go shopping or Right. You know, I'll pay for things that, I'm here so I'm able to support, but maybe this isn't something that I can really afford, or maybe people are like asking me for money, and it is because they have this pre consumption of like, well, you live at home, like you don't have to pay for rent. You have extra money to lend out to people. So it's all of those things that go with, if you don't respect yourself as a household within a household, like your money will literally disappear. Yeah. And I've experienced that. Yeah.
Well, and I, I love what you said. If you, if you leverage it basically into a way to get yourself out of household in a household eventually, then it can be an awesome way to establish yourself as a household. Figure out how to use your salary in a way that works for your priorities and make you extra ready to move out whenever that is. But, I would imagine that a lot of people, instead of seeing it as a way to jumpstart some of their long-term goals, they instead see it as a way to spend most of their salary. Then they get stuck where they are because it's like, how do you ever see the interest or the value in moving out when the only thing that you see as, well, if I got my own apartment, then it would take all of this chunk of my salary that right now I get to spend. And so then it's like I don't wanna ever move out because I like being able to just spend all my income. But if you do it the way that you described, where you use it as a way to have margin in your budget to be able to accelerate some of your goals, like saving and paying off debt so that you're in a better position to then move onto your own household, I think that is an amazing way to do it. And I love that you're willing to bring that up and speak to that on this episode too, because I know for a fact that you are not the only one that's doing that. And so if those people that maybe are doing it temporarily are currently spending everything that they bring in because they live in a household in a household, they might hear your story and be like, Ooh, maybe I do need to start making some shifts to the way that I do use that extra income to be wise about my future.
And I even wanna invite the reality check of being house within a household and I know for me, moving home, it was during the pandemic. And if you had asked me before the pandemic, would I have ever moved home, the answer would've been, are you crazy? And then on top of that, because I was technically having my first renter's experience going into the pandemic, even though it was hard, I did feel like I was preparing myself to transition into paying for housing. Like I wasn't imagining a future without it. And now that I'm not, and feel facing the realities of this is how much it costs to rent and this is how much it costs to buy, and then these are the additional costs that come with buying. And looking at yourself as a household within a household, I don't think I could really afford to not stay at home right now. Mm-hmm. And I think that's kind of a hard. Reality for most people to assume. Because even if we're staying at home, a part of us wants to feel like, but I don't have to stay at home if I don't wanna.
Yeah. I can move out anytime.
I can move at any time I want to. And it's like, no, you, well, maybe you, maybe you could, I don't know how much you make, but like, if you start looking at your numbers for real, then you might see like, oh no, that's not my, that's not my jam, that's not my story. Yeah. And it might force you to get a better paying job. I've had to have that conversation with myself when I look at what or where do I wanna live, because all those things come with price points 'cause they're overpriced markets versus lower price markets or the trade-offs between having to commute to work versus I cannot actually afford to live in the city that I work in.
You know, just empowering yourself with that information and knowing that it's a choice. Like if you're choosing to not expend that money to do that, that's a good, that's a fine choice to make, and maybe your choice in this season of staying at home is I'm gonna tithe at a higher percentage because I, this is a space in my life and a benefit of, whether it's your single season or you're staying at home season, whatever, you dub it for yourself. A benefit of that is I can invest in the house of God at a level at which, if I did have a house would not be possible because I would have a mortgage and then I will use these other amounts to work towards goals. I mean, I paid off credit card debt, staying at home. I put in probably three, four grand into my mom's car. I'm a high miler car driver. Mm-hmm. Yay. And that money was invested into making the car run well. Mm-hmm. It is worth it. 'cause it's like it runs well, but those were things that I had to invest into when my mom got another car. I've been able to travel, I've been able to do key things that I think also, there's this trap of if you're staying at home and you're not paying rent or you're not paying a, it's like you should have $30,000 saved up in the bank. You should just have a stash of money. And some people do have that. I think that they're definitely the savers. Yes. Yes. But when you're a spender and you come from a past of overspending and being in debt, it's easy for the enemy to come up against you and create this shame and create this lie to you that you're still not stewarding over your money well. Like you're still making bad decisions. You're still making Yeah. Bad choices, but it's like, wait, nope. Let me look at my, oh, I was able to, invest X, Y, Z into being generous. Mm-hmm. I was able to resurrect this car
Yes. Miraculously
like, I love how you talk so much about, we'll never do something for the future that involves not living for today. 'cause like, you could literally die and then mm-hmm. Never live for today. So I think there is that trade off. And of course there's more of a tendency to overindulge versus be like, mm-hmm. That's the power of knowing the numbers. 'cause then you get to have a very accurate, humble picture of yourself and you get to stand by your decisions at the end of the day. So that's another part of it as well. It's not just straight up, like get a house. It's no like understand where your multi-thousand dollar salary is going every year so that you can stand by your decisions.
Yeah. So, if the arrangement works for everyone, and it allows you to align your income with your priorities, then that shouldn't be something that we shame people for. It's the, it's the people that, like you mentioned, don't have a plan for the future and so they just see that salary as free money basically. In the same way that when we were like 14 and we babysat, if we got $40, we just went and blew the $40. 'cause we had no responsibility. We're like, okay, we can't do that. Even as an adult living in a household having a different arrangement than maybe our peers do, you can still leverage that into exactly the things that you just said, that you are able to give more than someone who has rent that takes up 40% of their income. And so those are, that's a really helpful message for people who are just, especially just graduating college. That's a big group of people that are for the very first time transitioning from the student life into putting their big girl pants on and trying to figure out what they're gonna do, whether that's, you know, wherever they're gonna live. So basically, if I could sum it up, it's like wherever you end up working and wherever you end up living, have a plan for how you're gonna use your money to accurately reflect your priorities. Right. Would you agree with that?
Absolutely. 100%. Awesome. Absolutely perfect. Yeah, I'm just, I'm really big on, so you said the 40% comment, and it really reminded me of like, when I did endeavor to decide, you know, do I wanna move out? Do I wanna get a house, da, da, da, da, and knowing those target numbers that awesome people like you share if where you live takes up more than 30% of your income, your income's gonna be a little stressed. Yes. And taking back the power of like, you know what? I don't have to settle and rush into something that I can't afford just because people are buying houses around me, or I'm a little bit frustrated in a space that I'm currently in. I think that's been another great part of knowing that I'm a household within a household and making decisions that way. It's I can also opt for and work towards the optimal decision. Yeah. Like, I don't have to settle and go into an apartment and nothing against apartments, but mm-hmm. If I know for a fact that, that I don't like any of the apartments more than my current living situation that I would be able to afford slash have access to, then that reminds me to be content where I'm at because I'm working towards something I really want versus just taking what I do have and throwing it at something that I don't really like that much.
You're not forced to rush into unideal situations simply because you need a place to live. You, your arrangement gives you options both in where and in when.
Absolutely. And that's a advantage. It's all about kind of finding your advantages. Because if nobody's telling you that you're in an advantage position, then you just give it up without really thinking about it. 'cause you're motivated by emotion. Versus if somebody is reaffirming you and saying helpful things and saying, you get to choose this for yourself. Like you get to choose how you want to use your money. Then it's like, oh wait, I do get to choose and I get to make smart decisions and I get to weigh my pros and cons. Thankfully I was in a good position and now I know it so that I can maintain it and protect it and make decisions not just financially, but like, morally that support what I'm trying to do with my money, because I think we also lose an edge when we're discontent and we're snappy, or we just look at everything as like this very temporal bridge that it's like, just burn it whenever, versus like, no, these are some of the structures in my life that are sustaining a position that I would rather be in than not.
It's like everything, no matter what aspect of finance or really of life that we're looking at, like it's easy to only focus on the pros when we talk about "young people should buy a house," and then it's easy to focus on the cons when we talk about "people out of college are living with family," but it's like there are really strong pros and cons to both of those, and so weighing the ones that work best for you, it's easy to just at face value, be like the people who bought a house are doing the right thing, and then the people who are living at home like something is broken about their job or about their priorities.
It's like, no, there are very strong pros and cons that depend on the situation and on the person, and there is no one right way. And so the way that you are going to go about graduating from college and deciding that your priorities are in a situation where you're going to use your income for all the things that you've just described.
If that's what aligns for you, then that is great. Like you do that, you live in that and do that well, and you can feel the freedom to put blinders on to not have to compare yourself to what anybody else your age is doing or in your same job or in your same college and not have to compare exactly what you do to exactly what they do.
'cause a lot of times I can't tell you how many times my job building custom budgets has been one of the most enlightening things of my entire life. Where the things that we are able to see on the outside are nothing like what the numbers actually show on the inside. So whoever those people are that we compare to and we say, I, what is wrong with me? So and so who I graduated with just bought a $500,000 house. You have no idea what's going on in the background of that. They could have been approved because their dad gave them a down payment. They could have been approved because they're living with someone else who has a high income. They could have just signed on for a mortgage that is gonna take 50% of their take home pay.
There's lots of things going on behind the scenes that if we knew the true numbers and the true reality, we would be like, Ooh, actually I don't want that thing that I thought, I don't want that. Yeah. Yeah, I want that. Nope. Like, that's just not my,
that's not my jam. That's not,
no, not at all. I mean, I look at, like, I look at numbers and it's, it's sometimes funny to only see the numbers. I can't see what the house looks like. I can't see what the car looks like. I just see the numbers. So that's the reverse experience, where we can see where people live and we can see the clothes they have and we can see the cars they drive, but we don't see the numbers. In my job, I see the opposite, where I just see the numbers. I don't know what the car is, I don't know what the house is. And that's a really unique experience to be like, I don't even care how big this house is. I don't, I would not want the stress of this size of a mortgage, for example.
Right. I think with Gen Z, you see a generation that is being super labeled as disruptive. And one of those things when it comes to talking about the finances is I think people are talking about things that don't necessarily matter to a generation of people who have seen the ins and outs of poor financial decisions and poor financial situations. And aren't necessarily like, they don't want a bunch of designer, they don't want a bunch of like they're going to thrift stores. They're the Goodwill. Yeah. They want to be not stressed. Like they want to uproot mental health issues. They want to uproot unsustainable things and unsustainable cultures. So bringing that contentment piece back in and just bringing in real finances and real situations, I think that is so much more valuable to us because we aren't all necessarily looking for, like, Forex, get riched quick, let's go on vacation every five days schemes and it's, it's split. 'cause you do have like other people because of social media who are perpetrating very impossible lifestyles. It's not normal for somebody fresh outta college to go on like five trips in one year.
Right?
That's not normal.
Nope, nope. At all. And you have to like tell yourself that you have to be like, is this No, that's absolutely not normal. Yeah. Why have I thought about not going on trips right now? Yeah. But you know, offering them something that's real and something that's gonna change their trajectory of like their bloodline and future generations, because that's honestly a need for us. And that's what's really out there. So when it is a lot of like personal finance stuff is just personal and it's not about changing behaviors and changing mindsets and changing communities. I think that's also that lackluster side of it, of like, that's not that interesting to me 'cause this doesn't align with how I am trying to show up in all the other areas, areas of my life.
Yeah, I love that. It is, we call it personal finance, but it impacts everybody. Certainly everybody we're related to and around. And then also it impacts the larger circles that we run in, whether that's as big as our generation or just the companies that we work at, the towns we live in. And the more that we can be transparent and be unemotional about saying things like, "I can't afford that," or" I need to do this with my money," the more we can start to make those shifts in the bigger circles, not just in the personal finance.
Amen. Love it. Love it so much, Mya. Thank you. This is so unique compared to the episodes that I've done before, so I am thrilled that you are willing to come talk about it. I think it is a extremely difficult topic to wade through and sort through all the different pieces of when we graduate, what are the feelings that we have about our money and how does that lead to actual situations like credit card debt or like struggling to call an Uber and then make changes to where you're living and what you're doing with your job. I am, I'm so thankful that you are even at such a young age, so wise about it and so willing to share.
Aw, thank you. That just made me feel really good. Yeah, I hope so. Miss Carly call me wise.
I love this phrase that Mya gave a household within a household. I think so many people out there find themselves in that situation in some way or another, whether you have roommates or you're living with family, or you have family living with you. How do we establish ourselves as our own family unit with our own household expenses and responsibilities while being inside of another household?
If you find yourself as a household within a household, I hope you can take Mya's story and questions and advice, and think about setting yourself up for launching. This situation can be a great opportunity to create the financial life that you want. Whether it's investing because your rent is much lower or sharing expenses like utilities and transportation. They can open the door to paying off debt even faster. I'm glad Mya was willing to come on and share about her experience of establishing herself as a household within a household. On season two, we're going to continue these conversations, sharing stories, and asking questions about finances. This season, we specifically want to focus on making room for unexpected expenses, handling things that weren't originally part of the plan and finding our plan B with our finances.
If you want to apply to be a guest on the show and share your story or ask a question, you can go to dfmpodcast.com.
